Terri's post is locked. Her fiancee kradical, though, has a public post on the same theme here.

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Fixed.

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SFWA doesn't know it's ass from a hole in the ground. Knowing what I do of SFWA's leadership, this is possibly the most likely scenario.

Funny thing, though, is that by doing this, they're opening the door to allowing for nominations of fan-fic for a Nebula. I'll be interested in seeing the fireworks erupt from THAT, let me tell you.

It's not just SFWA's leadership (not just saying that because I'm friends with them) but all of it. Who elected the present leadership? More importantly, who LET them be re-elected by not stepping forward for a turn as Prez, or whatever.

Secondly, the current membership of SFWA, I'm convinced, would be OK with fanfic being nominated. What the hell is the difference fanfic and 1 cent a word markets? Every time some full-time writer suggests that, no, getting one cent a word doesn't make you a professional there's a storm of indignation in the FORUM* suggesting that it's crass to putting a lower limit of what you can get paid and still be a writer.

*For all I know, they may have the same discussions in the SFWA bulletin boards, but either no one got my request for a user name or password or (more likely) I have not been bothered to look up what it is for a look/see.

I'll be interested to see how this plays out. Most likely the script will be declared ineligible by the end of the month, if not sooner.

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the current membership of SFWA, I'm convinced, would be OK with fanfic being nominated. What the hell is the difference fanfic and 1 cent a word markets?

I highly, highly doubt it. Between the Howard Hendrix rant about "webscabs" last year and Andrew Burt's C&D fun-and-games...yeah, I doubt it.

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Well, this would seem to be that "perfect storm" event I described at PhilCon where the freedom of art will meet the cold witch-slap of corporate control.

It will be interesting to read the interpretation of an intellectual property holder who goes after a writer for profiting off the use of copyrighted material in the form of a paycheck.

It was inevitable that the quality of fan films would reach that of professional programs and force this debate. I'll go get the popcorn.

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This has absolutely nothing to do with corporate control over an intellectual property. It also has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the product.

This has everything to do with a script being put up for an award it's not qualified to be nominated for.

If one of the Trek fanfic tomes out there somehow showed up on a Nebula ballot, the outcry would be the same, trust me.

Fanfic cannot be nominated for Nebulas because they're not a professionally-sold pieces of fiction, even if a SFWA member writes it. Fan films are the next evolution of fanfic, but both are still not legally able to make a profit, or it's copyright infringement. They're two different sides of the same coin. And neither are considered professional credits by SFWA standards.

If fan film scripts, no matter who the writer is, are allowed to be nominated for Nebulas, then by rights, fanfic authors should be granted the exact same rights.

Don't get me wrong. I have absolutely nothing against fan films or fanfic. I came up through the fanfic ranks before turning pro. I just think that if you're going to treat fan films as Nebula-eligible (when they aren't), the same courtesy should bloody well be extended to fanfic writers. And I can guarantee you that won't happen, not unless someone in SFWA leadership has a meltdown of transcendentally epic proportions.

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I agree with you. I am just bringing up another aspect of the greater issue. My objection extends to the fact that this further blurs that boundary of intellectual property and "fair use". It also validates that culture of fan media that wants both the right to use someone else's property AND earn professional accolades while avoiding the natural legal and professional responsibilities that go with both.

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I agree with you on this. Any lawyer worth his salt, the first time that a fan-film maker is taken to court for copyright infringment, is going to point out, "Well, SFWA thinks that this is fair use! See, they nominated one for an award!"

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Maybe, but the counterargument will be "SFWA has no legal standing, and a reputation of idiocy when it comes to copyright; why should we listen to them?"

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Right. When "Hope Chest" was shut down, it wasn't based on perceived financial loss, it was based on the idea that our use of characters misrepresented their property. Ours was community theater compared to New Voyages, which looks to the uninitiated like a professional product endorsed by CBS. Allowing it to receive such a coveted award will only dampen creator's rights to defend their own work.

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I have to take issue with "pro" meaning "paid"...

I'm a professional web developer who oftern donates his time to produce websites for non-profits (from which I receive no money) does this make the work unprofessional?

Michael Reaves is a professional screen-writer... did he somehow lose his pro status by writing this screen-play?

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It's not a judgement of the work. There's a LOT of fan-fic out there that's far better than a lot of pro stuff.

It's an issue of compensation. Or, rather, expectation of compensation. For example, there are amateur atheletes all over the country. They are amateurs because they place the game or sport without expectation of possible compensation. A PRO athelete, on the other hand, expects to be compensated if he or she plays in a tournament or a game and wins it (or gets lesser compensation for taking 2nd, 3rd, etc.). A PRO can also expect to be paid for use of his name and likeness by others for endorsement purposes. An amateur can certainly be even better at the game than a pro... and in fact many of them are - take the Olympics, for example. However, the difference is that the Pro get compensated, or at least has a reasonable expectation of being so. The same holds true elsewhere.

Now, as far as donating your work... in that case, you are WAIVING compensation that you would otherwise be expected to receive, for charitable or other reasons.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that Michael doesn't DESERVE to be nominated for this. It was a good script and production, professional or otherwise. What I'm saying is that it seems that SFWA is breaking it's own rules to do so. They can't have it both ways. If amateur or fan works can be nominated, then change the rules... ALL the rules... the keep them from being so. Otherwise, don't play favorites.

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Maybe they are using professional in the newer sense of the word, meaning of high quality or as if it were for pay? Just speculation.

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The way I could see people looking at it is, "Well, the actors are professional actors who do this for a living, the writers are professional writers who do this for a living ... hence, 'professional'!"

But it raises an interesting question: Does "professional" have to mean "commercial"? What if, say, they wanted to nominate the Doctor Who "Time Crash" mini-ep which was done for Comic Relief as a charitable thing? Would that be as wrong?

(Mind you, I don't know that the pay-in-copies and fanfic [and yes; they are two different things; and yes, there are very reputable publications which pay in copies--but I'm thinking about the other kind; the ones who pay in copies because they need the money they for their publications so they can go to retreats and conventions .
... if you're one of the GOOD pay-in-copies people, you know who you are--and may assume that *I* know, as well] wouldn't go apeshit over this, seeing it as absolute vindication, but ...)

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